The Christian-Koinonia Support Group - Blogs http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/blog.php en Wed, 22 May 2013 16:05:05 GMT vBulletin 60 http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/images/misc/rss.jpg The Christian-Koinonia Support Group - Blogs http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/blog.php selective reading of the scriptures http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/blog.php?b=334 Wed, 01 May 2013 13:33:09 GMT It amazes me how my former church organization was able to justify reading the scriptures to support their doctrines and ignoring the ones that do... It amazes me how my former church organization was able to justify reading the scriptures to support their doctrines and ignoring the ones that do not.
An example is "Man looks on the outward appearance but God looks on the heart" They interpret this to mean that God expects you to wear and not wear certain things, especially if you are a woman --say what???!!!
Another is "take no thought for what you should wear . . . 'something about how he clothes the birds,etc" They interpret this as think very hard about what you wear and make sure it is approved by the church and pastor . . oh, and be sure to take hours on that hairdo and shopping is of course one of our only approved activities.
Then there are all the scriptures about love, including God is Love. They interpret these to mean love your brother and sister IF they are in 'the truth' and following all the rules very closely but remember God is an angry God and you better be careful what you do, see, hear, say because you are one small step from eternal damnation! Oh, and remember all that gossip and meanness you pass around when a brother or sister slip up is really done in 'love' Yeah right!:4no:
Of course the scriptures about gluttony are completely ignored. They create an entire doctrine around one obscure scripture about hair while they walk around in their tonnage proclaiming their scriptural superiority.
Don't even consider the scripture about the good Samaritan, if you see a poor soul in need, only pay attention if he/she can in some way promote the message of the church.
There is a scripture about humility, something about taking the low seat and perhaps being asked to move up being better than the other way around --well, that one they totally demolished. They create a whole table of high seats, usually related and God forbid anyone would have the nerve to question their right to be there.
There are more anomolies but you get the picture and isn't it just sad ???? ]]> Nancy http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/blog.php?b=334 getting old . . . . . http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/blog.php?b=333 Mon, 29 Apr 2013 09:01:59 GMT When my grandmother was the age I am now, I thought she was ancient! At times I looked forward to the time when I was old --and wise :) I actually... When my grandmother was the age I am now, I thought she was ancient! At times I looked forward to the time when I was old --and wise :) I actually yearned for the day when I would no longer be so uncertain I was right about anything but would have that assurance that I just 'knew' what was right and what I was doing! So now I am pretty much there and what the heck!?? were all the old people just faking it or am I an anomaly???
Sure at rare times, I actually do feel pretty certain I have a bit of wisdom about something and even sense that I am giving my friends and family good advice occasionally (well at least on 'rare' occasions) but that overall feeling of 'having arrived' and being comfortable in my wisdom is still eluding me. I still too often have the feeling of "say what??!!" I know that too is a part of old age but you are supposed to enjoy the wise one period before reaching the confused dotty period :l4augh: I sure hope I am not skipping the first and going straight to the second!:swoon:
Of course, (brag) I don't yet have many gray hairs --maybe my wisdom will arrive with the change in hair color (that is if I continue to resist the urging of my hairdresser to assure that never happens):4yes:
Oh well, getting old may not be all its cracked up to be but as a wise one once told me " it sure beats the alternative!":4yes: ]]> Nancy http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/blog.php?b=333 <![CDATA[Jehovah's Witnesses and Catholic Mass]]> http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/blog.php?b=332 Thu, 07 Mar 2013 06:39:57 GMT Someone knocked my door last weekend. I didn't want to open the door after hearing the knock because I was napping in lounge clothes, so I yelled through my thin door "Who is it?" No response. I yelled again, louder: "Who is it??" A man said, "It'S Dave and [some guy]; we just want to leave you an invitation."

I live on vacation rental property and thought it was a couple of vacationers in the guest house down the way inviting me over to socialize--it's happened before. Feeling groggy and not in the mood to have a conversation through the door, I simply asked them to leave the invitation on the small table outside. Later on I went out to retrieve their invitation. To my surprise, it was a flyer from a local Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses.

I don't think religious proselytes often try to empathize with others who are unlike them. The flyer they left me advertised a bible study and seminar and showed a bloody hanging Jesus. These JWs might have considered that image sacred, but it doesn't mean everyone who looks at the image thinks the same and wants it left at their door.

It was poor and misleading representation on their part that they were not up front about who they are. They probably knew from experience that people who don't like their proselytizing would shoo them away before they had a chance to leave a flyer. These JWs took advantage of omission to avoid stating explicitly that they were leaving me a religious invitation. (I was too groggy from having woken up from a nap at a sudden knock and didn't have the clarity to engage in conversation or ask other questions.)

After many years of the JWs existing worldwide, I think most people have heard of them and know where to find them if they're interested in learning more about their doctrines. Finding a nearby Kingdom Hall is only a click away online or in the phone book. They really don't need to knock people's doors anymore or leave bloody pictures hoping to tug at people's emotions to prime them for proselytization.


=============


On a happier note: Pious little me...I toured a basilica Sunday evening and heard they were going to have mass about a half hour after I arrived. I was so moved by the beauty of the architecture and interior art that I decided to stay. It was my first mass ever. I loved the singing, music, and incense. I appreciated that the priest stayed up front and didn't scream into a microphone and point at 'sinners' in the congregation. :)

Some parts of the liturgy were beautiful, but the guilt-trip wording sucked. It was nice to see families gather together, children asleep on pews, and a huge circular waifer held high by the priest. I hadn't seen that since childhood--my minister in the Air Force chapel when I was young would hold up the waifer in a similar way.

I left in awe that I was able to look objectively at the liturgy wording and not feel burdened by fear. The sting, in that moment, of being raised with religious fear was gone. ]]> jema http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/blog.php?b=332 Get out of my head! http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/blog.php?b=330 Mon, 18 Feb 2013 14:36:34 GMT Individuals who suffer abuse sometimes escape, heal, and move on to live productive lives, but there is a part of them that can never forget and... Individuals who suffer abuse sometimes escape, heal, and move on to live productive lives, but there is a part of them that can never forget and sometimes that causes problems. Growing up in a legalistic, spiritually abusive denomination also creates memories hard to forget and makes it difficult to trust ANY church group or leadership. Just as an abused child never really trust ANY parent again without extensive therapy and perhaps just never, an abused Christian doesn't trust ANY church and unfortunately therapy for this is not as widely understood, sought, or offered.
Some may not even trust God, believing he is either like the abusive doctrine taught or that He should have saved them from going through that. Many abused children do not trust God for the same reasons.
Good parents who try to help an abused child do the best they can, realizing they may not be successful and have little hope that the relationship will ever be totally without problems but also hope the child will grow to be a happy, productive adult. Many times these good parents pay the price for the bad parents they replace. The child targets the anger toward the parent that is available, proving if possible that they will also reject them or at the least become angry and not understand.
As the ultimate good parent, God must weep over these abused children and spiritually abused christians, desiring for them to just trust Him to show them a path to peace and hope.
Whatsoever things are good, lovely, . . . . .think on these things and just perhaps the other thoughts can be pushed out of our heads. ]]> Nancy http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/blog.php?b=330 brokeness to FREEDOM http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/blog.php?b=329 Thu, 14 Feb 2013 18:05:50 GMT this is my first blog ever so it might be more like a ramble..but.FREEDOM it doesn't always come easy..sometimes it takes a long long time..but i will say this..its well worth the journey..JESUS walks by our side all the way threw..i am x 3rd generation apostolic/upc..i have seen it all..i have seen churches rise and fall..for money..for women..for pride..who can stand above GOD? no man that is for sure..so why do men raise themselves up?..i will never know.but i have seen my own pride in my life and i don't like it..i have had my share of upc/AA brokenness as well ..i spent many years far away from THE LORD for it..what a waist of time..the real GOSPEL is not about running people out..its about bring people back in...into Restoration,healing and Grace,and forgiveness..half the time the enemy doesnt have to lift a finger..we can do all that crap to each other well enough with out his stinking help..ugh..we all have wounds that need healing..and ONLY JESUS CHRIST CAN HEAL THEM..AND THE GOOD NEWS..HE REALLY REALLY REALLY WANTS TO.. ]]> bajajohnny http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/blog.php?b=329 Agnostic Ponderings ..-. http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/blog.php?b=328 Tue, 29 Jan 2013 22:04:45 GMT -I value reason over faith. Yet, I understand that out-of-the-ordinary experiences can leave a lot of questions unanswered. -With effort, one... -I value reason over faith. Yet, I understand that out-of-the-ordinary experiences can leave a lot of questions unanswered.

-With effort, one can learn to reason and take responsibility when thinking gets off track into areas that don't make sense, or when one finds oneself believing something blindly, particularly lifelong teachings, without having evidence of truth.

-Some people believe in one life to live followed by an eternal afterlife, others believe in successive lives, and others believe in only one life, period. I'd rather know than believe. And if I cannot know directly, I'd rather work toward knowing (with a critic's mind) and keep having to change my mind than to settle on believing or disbelieving. Believing/disbelieving requires little work or evidence, just a willingness to accept/reject ideas, often prematurely.

-How is it that if humans are fearfully and wonderfully made, we must still use the toilet, brush our teeth, and take showers? Couldn't we have been created without the need to defecate or to be a host for bacteria that can stink so badly? I suppose a faith-based rationalization would be that because of Original Sin, we have death and decay--out of which comes stink. But, unless the design of our innards changed after sin was introduced through Adam and Eve, we were created from the beginning with the need to excrete waste. I'm doubtful it smelled any better back then than after having partaken of the forbidden fruit! :nah: Why would something foul-smelling have existed prior to sin?

-It's easy for teachers to promote faith-based doctrines because their teachings can't be proven or disproven. If I wanted to gain a following, I wouldn't be able to do so by making a claim that I have three physical legs (when I don't) then basing a spiritual/religious teaching on it. It's too easy to disprove from the beginning. All someone would have to do is ask to see my third leg. What I'd need to do is teach that my third leg is invisible. This way, the teaching is more palatable to those who are curious yet gullible. But gullible people who have a more questioning nature would probably ask to touch it, despite not seeing it, since it supposedly exists. Anticipating this, I'd have to step up my teaching by saying that the third leg is not only invisible, but immaterial (i.e. it exists non-physically) so touching it would be impossible. Although my first claim of having three physical legs is the most plausible one, it's also the most disprovable one, so it's a useless base for a teaching. So, ironically, the most far-out teachings tend to endure as the most believed over time. Odd. ]]> jema http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/blog.php?b=328 <![CDATA[My "Sheepmates"]]> http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/blog.php?b=327 Fri, 11 Jan 2013 08:28:17 GMT During my time in UPC, I learned to trust in the "man of God" and never doubt those whom God (supposedly) annointed. Thankfully, I rebelled.

People in UPC leadership tend to have an inflated sense of their own importance to the "flock". They rely on charisma, allegiance, and inculcation to steer
congregations into their control. This is not to say, necessarily, that they have ill intentions. In most cases, many of them deeply believe they've been
granted divine authority to lead. And, with sincerety, many of them could never imagine doing anything to bring harm to anyone. But like bulls in a China shop, they
charge forth in their ways rarely understanding the harm they bring to many delicate souls in their "care". It's to these souls that I dedicate this blog post. We
are some of these souls who had realized that, at one time, we had wandered into pastures where we didn't belong. Our better natures alerted us to danger, so we
left. Thankfully, we found each other in a safer place. Some are wounded, some are plagued by fright, some are confused, some are recovering, some are shorn (Some have
been literally recently "shorn" to a happier appearance -- Congrats!).

As we help each other to laugh, cry, pray, give thanks, and express ourselves, we contribute to our overall healing. Blessings on our journeys! ]]> jema http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/blog.php?b=327 When Innocence is Destroyed http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/blog.php?b=326 Sun, 16 Dec 2012 12:27:07 GMT The events of these passt few days brought to mind another time when innocent children were killed. My friend Sharon shared this with me. These... The events of these passt few days brought to mind another time when innocent children were killed. My friend Sharon shared this with me.

These words sound so everyday-ish and calm. UNTO US A SON IS BORN! But the coming of the Son of God, as predicted, was far from peaceful. Think about it. A young Jewish girl goes to her parents and tells them, “I’m pregnant!” A few days later after ranting and raving and threatening to kick her out, they finally take a breath long enough for her to say, “I haven’t been with a man. This baby is from God.” Can you imagine the mocking uproar THAT would cause? In fact I’m sure there were many who wanted to stone her, who thought it was their God-directed duty to do so. Of course, being the kind of parents that raised a Mary, perhaps her parents would listen, but I have no doubt the rest of the village gave her and Joseph plenty of grief. Mary must have had weeks or months of anxiety wondering what would happen when she told Joseph, but Joseph was obviously a man of faith who believed God and didn't end their engagement, even quietly.

And if that weren't enough, Mary’s baby was born in a stable full of manure, filthy straw, and cattle of various types. We make lovely, clean scenes of that experience – but, women, would you want to deliver your baby in the filth and noise of a stable?

And have you ever wondered if Mary and Joseph figured it out, during those years of exile, that it was because of their son’s birth that many children were murdered?

Our Savior whose birth we celebrate had a horrid start to his life and an ending that was terrible, excruciating, humiliating and agonizingly, isolated, and lonely. None of us can begin to imagine what it was like, not even the thief hanging next to him.

If we meditate on all that He and his earthly family suffered, our hearts must bow in gratefulness before the Savior. Even in our sorrow, we know that He understands, and we must can come to Him. He knows our suffering, He shares our sorrow. ]]> 4thetruth http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/blog.php?b=326 Trust issues http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/blog.php?b=323 Sat, 10 Nov 2012 00:01:03 GMT After my initial fear of her, I came to adore my first grade teacher. She seemed to reciprocate that feeling throughout my first grade year. That... After my initial fear of her, I came to adore my first grade teacher. She seemed to reciprocate that feeling throughout my first grade year. That summer, I missed her and at the beginning of the next school year, I couldn't wait to see her. First chance was at recess and I happily ran up to give her a hug; she stopped me cold-"you aren't in first grade anymore so you are not mine! And pointing to my 2nd grade teacher, she said "now you belong to Mrs. Jones." I remember walking off sorrowfully. I never trusted Mrs. Jones and never fell in love with her. I don't even remember what she looked like.
My best friend cousin was just 3 weeks older than me. We were inseparable. When we were 8, she was killed in a freak train accident. I never had another friend as 'best' as Vicky.
When I was 10 we moved away. I missed my little neighborhood friend. We had done all kinds of mischief together. A few weeks later we visited the people renting our old house. Their daughter and my neighborhood friend played together as if I wasn't even there.
The die was cast, for the rest of my life, trust would be hard for me. It didn't help that I was in a legalistic church group that tied friendship to performance and forbid or discouraged it at will of the leadership.
To counteract what I feel is an unhealthy distrust of others, I am stalwart in my loyalty. I stand by a friend even if I never see them for years at a time and even if they are not as faithful to the friendship, as long as they are not mean, cruel, or 'twofaced' with me.
This past week I again encountered this phenomenon. My former director and I were very close but with both of us receiving promotions, she has moved on. As I walked cheerfully up to renew our friendship, it was obvious the relationship has changed. I later was told to limit our friendship because of business politics. Well, she made that easy- she probably got the message first and chose the easy way out. I would have limited the business side but fought for the friendship.
Anyway, as I tried to reason my way through what happened, these thoughts came to mind. I am stronger for what I have lived through. I don't expect too much of others. I love and sincerely appreciate small kindnesses more than people realize.
I am happy and blessed and thankful for the ability to understand myself and why I am who I am.
It helps to put it in writing:4yes: ]]> Nancy http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/blog.php?b=323 the wearing of pants http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/blog.php?b=322 Fri, 02 Nov 2012 06:30:20 GMT This topic may have come up before but I would like to hear some of your replies about woman wearing pants. I read an article that Jason Pounds wrote... This topic may have come up before but I would like to hear some of your replies about woman wearing pants. I read an article that Jason Pounds wrote and he stated and gave scriptural basis for Deut. 22:5 and said that the phrase “that which pertaineth,” or simply the word pertaineth in the King James Version of the Bible, is translated from the Hebrew word keliy, which means “article, vessel, implement, or utensil.”1 Translators commonly render keliy as weapon, armor or instrument in the Old Testament. The word man, in both the first and last part of Deut 22:5, is the Hebrew word geber meaning “man, strong man, or warrior (emphasizing strength or ability to fight).”2 It is important to note that this is not the only word for man in Hebrew. Verse 13 of this very same chapter uses the Hebrew word 'iysh, which is also translated man and means just that – “man, male (in contrast to woman, female).”3
“The woman shall not put on [the weapons/armor of a warrior], neither shall a [warrior] put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God."

Women did not start wearing pants as a means of rebellion or to be more “manly” but because they were more comfortable and functional. Fashion has been moving in the direction of more function and less style for well over a century now.
So my question is "if woman wearing pants for functionality (meaning gardening, exercising etc.) is okay then would it be wrong to make a practice of it for every day wear. I may not have worded this correctly but I'll have to see the responses first.
]]> bubba http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/blog.php?b=322 It is no secret http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/blog.php?b=321 Mon, 08 Oct 2012 19:30:37 GMT There is a wonderful old song:
It is no secret what God can do, what he's done for others, he'll do for you! With arms wide open, he'll pardon you, it is no secret what God can do

God's plan is no secret. You don't need some special revelation, validated by some self important board of narcissistic men. His plan is so simple, a wayfaring man, though a fool need not err therein. For God so loved the world, He gave His only begotten Son . . . . . .THAT is His plan, believe! Have faith because without faith it is impossible to please Him. . . he who cometh to God must believe that He IS and the He is a rewarder of them who diligently seek Him. Jesus said He came that we might have peace, fear not!
My parents used to sing a song titled WHO. . .
Who lights the stars at night , who guides the moon in flight, who makes the sun so bright ? Nobody but my Lord!
Who gave me saving grace, who died to take my place,who did my sins erase? Nobody but my Lord!
Yes, he made the earth, he made the sea and land, fastened them together by His mighty hand, under His control, they move at His command , Nobody but my Lord . . .could do it!
Nobody, nothing, not things present, nor things past, not any creature can separate us from the love of God or from His plan. God is good and His mercy endureth forever. ]]> Nancy http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/blog.php?b=321 bananafanabobana http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/blog.php?b=320 Sat, 06 Oct 2012 13:05:25 GMT I never could get that little ditty right no matter how hard I tried, it just never made sense so I couldn't get it to stick in my mind. Kinda like the legalistic, unhealthy church doctrine. So much of it was mumbo jumbo and wasn't even consistent from church to church, but was still proclaimed the Word of God and heaven or hell importance in each particular group/building. This can be tremendously confusing:swoon: I wonder how God keeps it straight? No wedding rings in this church, no hair barrettes in this one, no bracelets or necklaces here but wedding rings and barrettes ok, no mustaches here but no mustaches or beards here (does that include old lady mustaches? :l4augh:
No pants on ladies here but over here culottes ok, sleeve lengths are anybody's guess but you better get it right if you expect to make heaven your home.
Sigh ..... . ]]> Nancy http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/blog.php?b=320 Faith, Hope, Love http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/blog.php?b=319 Mon, 01 Oct 2012 11:22:24 GMT There is a children's song that goes ... . Have faith, hope, and charity, that's the way to live successfully. How do I know the Bible tells me so ....
I think one of the most devastating attributes of an unhealthy, legalistic church is that they weaken ones faith, take away hope and contaminate love.
Faith that begins as a result of acknowledging amazing grace, soon weakens when taught to rely on performance or adherance to arbitrary standards as a guage of salvational standing.
Hope that begins with a belief that all things are possible is limited severely when tied to a dependence on human performance or actions seen as directly impacting ones status or relationship with God.
Finally love that begins as an all consuming feeling of caring, kindness, and a desire to give to others as you experienced the love of the almighty is corrupted by an attitude of self righteous judgement that permeates the entire movement in these legalistic, performance based, unhealthy church organizations.
I can remember a time as a new believer when nothing was seen as a negative. Lack of money or possessions just held little importance compared to the knowledge that God was real, He loved me and I had hope for eternity.
Then, as time passed, the cares of life- spouse, children, elderly parents . . . .wanting a perfect life for those I loved challenged my faith, my hope for the future, the purity of my love for all, rather than a love limited to those demonstrating a deservance of my love.
The unhealthy church engendered a skewed world view that limited my faith in amazing grace and attempted to define that faith by my own ability to believe or perform. Hope for the future was replace by fear of not measuring up to some hazy, uncertain standards.
Love was superficial and quickly withdrawn from those not in compliance with the group.
It became clear that I no longer had an uncompromised faith, hope, and charity and it was very doubtful I ever would regain these within this unhealthy church.
Leaving did not immediately bring me back to a healthy outlook and relationship with God. It is a journey. However, my faith is restored. God is almighty. He is in control. We need not fear. I have hope in a better future but echo apostle Paul in his statement that if in this life only I had hope then I would be of all men most miserable. This world seems hopeless but my hope rest in the Creator. Since leaving the unhealthy atmosphere of selfrighteous judgement, I can again see the love all around me. In many ways my faith and hope is restored by that. God is love! Unhealthy, legalistic churches distort that love into a system of rewards and punishments based on our inescapable human frailty. God's love has no such constraints. Our love for others should be equally without constraint, loving our friends and our enemies and all those in between, loving ourselves and our neighbors because on this commandment to love rest all the law according to Jesus Christ. It does not rest on laws created by ill intentioned or even good intentioned men who would ignore God's commandment to love and replace it with long lists of rules. ]]> Nancy http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/blog.php?b=319 Videos On Television http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/blog.php?b=318 Fri, 24 Aug 2012 07:29:14 GMT These are three YouTube videos done by a former Pentecostal in Australia. He is not a Christian and there were a couple things I didn't like, but overall he did a nice job with these.

He also goes over some of the points made in the book, "The Subtle Power Of Spiritual Abuse."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5efYlPLKMg




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2whznvArJ18




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pROvFTmthP4

]]> Lois http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/blog.php?b=318 No Strings Attached :) http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/blog.php?b=317 Sun, 12 Aug 2012 23:31:58 GMT Hey everyone :)

I have been a little quiet coming into this group, mostly because I'm a bit shy, But the other reason is because I have had a lot of things to deal with since leaving the UPC church I had been attending. It has been an emotional and eye opening experience. God has brought me to a new church that has been like a soothing comfort to my soul. I worried a lot that i was going to go to hell for leaving "the church" but I finally have realized that the Church is not ever one specific group of one doctrinal view, it is a group of People who have accepted The Lord's salvation and who strive to be closer to Him everyday. So simple. I do not have the words to express how grateful I am for God's Love and patience in my life. I know I dont deserve his love...and thank God I don't have to. It is a gift given, with NO STRINGS ATTACHED.

Reading the many threads and comments in this group, I can see the love and understanding you all have for each other. I have learned so much from what I have read and I am glad I found this place of understanding and fellowship. God Bless you all. :) ]]> P1nkpengu1n http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/blog.php?b=317