http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/blog.php en Tue, 07 Feb 2012 21:28:27 GMT vBulletin 60 http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/images/misc/rss.jpg http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/blog.php http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/blog.php?b=283 Sun, 29 Jan 2012 23:30:57 GMT http://www.bpnews.net/BPnews.asp?ID=37054 The above link will take you to an article that tells how T.D. Jakes has embraced the teaching of the... http://www.bpnews.net/BPnews.asp?ID=37054

The above link will take you to an article that tells how T.D. Jakes has embraced the teaching of the Trinity. For years there has been speculation and talk about him believing in Oneness.

However, he still wishes to fellowship with both camps, something that he may well find is difficult with Oneness Pentecostals who believe it is a matter of salvation. Just as Trinitarians had issues with him when he believed Oneness. ]]> Lois http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/blog.php?b=283 http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/blog.php?b=282 Mon, 23 Jan 2012 18:16:00 GMT This link will take you to the article: http://www.journalgazette.net/articl...FEAT/301249999

It in part states:

"In addition to wearing skirts, she does not wear makeup or cut her hair – all rules she follows because they are put forth in the Bible.

“We believe that we can’t really improve on what the Lord made us to look like,” says Hughes, who is married to the pastor at Auburn United Pentecostal Church."

Sometimes newspapers really mess up as in the beginning they say the no cutting of a woman's hair is a Pentecostal rule. No, it is not. It is with some Oneness Pentecostals and a few others, but it is certainly not a mainstream Pentecostal belief. {Note: See correction below} ]]> Lois http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/blog.php?b=282 http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/blog.php?b=281 Sun, 22 Jan 2012 19:00:35 GMT http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-178629120699935619 178629120699935619 *Here is a link where you can watch the movie, Marjoe, in its... http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...29120699935619



Here is a link where you can watch the movie, Marjoe, in its entirety for free on Google. Some may find it difficult to watch due to the subject matter and scenes from Pentecostal services.

Marjoe was raised as a child to be an evangelist, but was never a Christian. His parents, who had an AOG background, had him memorizing sermons & movements to go with them from the age of 4, I believe. He exposes himself as a fraud in this documentary and also tells how some evangelists & ministers scam people. ]]> Lois http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/blog.php?b=281 http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/blog.php?b=280 Sat, 21 Jan 2012 11:42:00 GMT *To our newer readers, you may be interested in the online support group we operate. The link will take you to a page that tells more about it and ... To our newer readers, you may be interested in the online support group we operate. The link will take you to a page that tells more about it and how to join. Facebook isn't an avenue where a support group can be operated, though it is helpful in educating people about abuse. If you want a private place to share, read and heal, consider joining the group.

http://www.spiritualabuse.org/ck/supportgroup.html ]]> Lois http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/blog.php?b=280 http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/blog.php?b=279 Fri, 20 Jan 2012 12:39:00 GMT Here are three articles concerning the sexual charges against former UPC pastor, Matthew Kidd, starting from the most recent. ... Here are three articles concerning the sexual charges against former UPC pastor, Matthew Kidd, starting from the most recent.

http://www.thestarpress.com/apps/pbc...=2012201140330

http://www.thestarpress.com/apps/pbc...=2012120113018

http://www.thestarpress.com/article/...WS01/201130337 ]]> Lois http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/blog.php?b=279 http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/blog.php?b=278 Thu, 19 Jan 2012 21:30:59 GMT I've been reading a book by a former UPCer called, Pigs In The Pulpit. I don't care for some of his resources listed at the end of the book, but a number are fine. I am going to share some excerpts from the book, to educate and possibly prompt some discussion. Note: J. Michael Wittmann is a pseudonym.

Michael was very messed up before he started his walk with God, being in part a heavy drug user. He had a very noticeable life changing experience with God outside of the UPC. His life took one of those immediate changes, according to his account, where he instantly stopped drinking, smoking and doing drugs.

Very soon after his experience, things started to get messed up as he became involved with the UPC, where he was told by the one giving him a Bible study that he wasn't saved. Michael knew the drastic changes that he experienced and insisted that he was saved, but this guy, Jason, kept on him. He wouldn't even allow Michael to be water baptized for weeks. Michael finally went over his head to the pastor, even though the pastor previously had told him that Jason said he wasn't ready. When Michael had spoken in tongues, Jason questioned its authenticity and said others in the church did, too.

This book doesn't appear to want to tackle doctrine much, other than outward standards. It is mostly him telling of his UPC & ex-UPC church (Word of Faith) experience.

Here is a quote from page 78 (note that he changed the names of churches and people): "I've been asked many times in the years since we were "in the fold" of the UPCI and the First Apostles Church, "Why didn't you just leave? How could you put up with so many rules that you knew weren't exactly Biblical?" Well, here is the key. When a person is newly "saved," there is a slow process of indoctrination; i.e. "to instruct in a doctrine, principle, ideology, etc., esp. to imbue with a specific partisan or biased belief or point of view."

"Combine those teachings with a powerful conversion experience, dynamic and emotional worship, and a group of people who seem to love and accept you unconditionally. Then you have a recipe for a new convert's mind and heart that would be willing and eager to accept almost anything short of standing on one's head and barking like a dog.

"I was one of those eager to please my new leaders and conform to the group's way of thinking and behaving. What I fully believed at the time was the Holy Spirit within me, giving me a certain feeling of comfort and safety within the church and trust of our leadership...at least when I wasn't fully engaged with Jason."

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...iritualab0c-20 ]]> Lois http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/blog.php?b=278 http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/blog.php?b=277 Wed, 18 Jan 2012 20:36:12 GMT *Yesterday I picked up a used copy of a book on the subject of rape (Telling by Patricia Weaver Francisco). It is a first hand account of a woman... Yesterday I picked up a used copy of a book on the subject of rape (Telling by Patricia Weaver Francisco). It is a first hand account of a woman who was violated. Something she wrote in the prologue caught my attention as similar can be said about spiritual abuse. Here is what she wrote:

"Myths," said Cassandra Thomas in talking about rape, "keep us from doing the work we need to do based on truth." And one of the myths we live by is that rape doesn't exist. Not really. Not like baseball and heart attacks and love affairs and taxes. Not like the things we talk about together in the evening and feel the need to understand. We don't talk about rape partly because we are bound by superstition. I couldn't survive it. I might feel differently about sex. These myths keep women and men from having the conversations that might save our lives, our loves."

Substitute 'spiritual abuse' for 'rape' and see if you don't see the similarity. There are definitely myths and misconceptions about spiritual abuse and it occurs with more frequency than many realize.

What are some myths and misconceptions about spiritual abuse that come to mind? One that I quickly thought of is those saying that people upset about the color of the paint or carpet in a church are crying abuse, in an attempt to make the thought of abuse in church ridiculous and frivolous. While some simpleton might attempt such, I have never had anyone contact me because they felt abused when the pastor had a church wall painted a color they didn't want or like.

Another is that spiritual abuse is about people who are upset they didn't get to do something, like teach Sunday School or sing in the choir. Or that it is some personal grudge about something. Again, the attempt is to make spiritual abuse seem frivolous and therefore discredit it, making people who have been abused to appear to be a bunch of whiners and complainers. ]]> Lois http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/blog.php?b=277 http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/blog.php?b=275 Tue, 17 Jan 2012 13:26:00 GMT Awhile back I posted a video of a made-for-TV movie based on the book, "The Wave." I recently found it has been made into a feature length film in Germany. This is the link to the DVD on Amazon, where you may read reviews. It is based on an incident that actually happened in the 1960s in a school in California. People who have been in unhealthy churches should be able to relate and maybe learn something from it.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...iritualab0c-20

You may also rent it for a lot less: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...iritualab0c-20 There is a trailer you can watch on this link.

I was able to watch it recently. They updated the story, having it take place in our time and the ending was changed. Both endings in each film are powerful.
In doing some research afterward, though not in depth, I found that the made-for-tv version is closest to what actually happened. I also found that last year a documentary was put together about it, with interviews with some participants and the teacher. The name of that is "Lesson Plan" and the DVD is not yet available. In fact, the teacher has a bit part in the German remake and there is a brief interview with him in the bonus section.

As previously mentioned, the movies are based on an actual event from 1967 at a high school in California. It was a class experiment that got out of hand. It was the first year of teaching for Ron Jones, who three years later lost his fight for tenure (it appears to do with political activism).

Here is the short story that Ron Jones wrote about the incident: http://libcom.org/history/the-third-...ount-ron-jones See if you notice anything similar with what happens in unhealthy churches. I encourage you to watch either this film or the 1981 TV version that is found on Google. Amazon also rents the film.


Here is a quote from Ron Jones from the interview on the DVD: "...you're looking at 'The Wave,' trying to understand why do we give up our freedom for the thought of being better than everyone else. And it's a lesson that we all need to see and hear and talk about."

Another quote from Ron Jones from the DVD, in speaking about one of the students crossing over an invisible line that was a simulation and became something real: "And I realized that I was crossing over that same line. I was no longer just teaching about this thing called fascism, I was enjoying- enjoying- being a leader and that was frightening."

Some of the similarities from this incident and being in an unhealthy church are:

Blind obedience to authority

A gradual process of influence and indoctrination

Rigid rules

Conformity

Peer pressure

Giving up yourself to be part of something great

Tattling on the disobedient

In further research on the incident, there are some who do not believe the events happened quite as Mr. Jones states. It is not my desire to get into all of that as it does appear that there was this class experiment. The movies are thought provoking and a possible way to help people since the subject matter is not spiritual abuse, but people caught up in these church movements can relate to it. Similar to the movie, "The Village."
]]> Lois http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/blog.php?b=275 http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/blog.php?b=274 Mon, 16 Jan 2012 12:52:00 GMT There is a false sense of safety in never questioning or looking into what a church is teaching. The boat isn't rocked, everyone feels familiar and you know what to expect, even if you are unhappy. Yet if it is error being taught, then that nice sense of security is false. It means there really is no security.

That's really something to think about. You might liken it to some investment schemes. People have lost their life savings, or a good portion of it, by having a false sense of security in the investment plan offered by the scam artist. They truly believe their money is being wisely invested, with a guarantee of a profitable return. In the end, their security is shattered because what they placed their faith in ended up being false.

Some time ago, I read a book by Don C. Marler, former UPC member, entitled "Imprisoned in the Brotherhood." While I disagree with aspects of the book, he brought up some points worthy of consideration. In the introduction he shares about the pursuit of truth and how it can feel like the person is on shaky ground when they start this journey. Many people who are involved in unhealthy churches get caught up in religion instead of a relationship with God. When one starts to question if what their church teaches is true or not, it shakes this religious foundation and it can be quite scary. Let me quote from Don's introduction.

Quote:
"When one moves full tilt into pursuit of truth, he may find that the ground becomes shaky and his resolve to pursue truth wherever she might lead becomes tenuous. One learns that security based upon ignorance, prejudice, illusions, misinformation and blind tradition is a false security indeed. Old guideposts can no longer be relied upon. The prospect of seeking truth and following it fully then is often frightening. Not everyone can face it; some decide to keep their heads in the sand. The illusion of security is more tempting than the fearful journey into the unknown.

"Some individuals believe that pursuing truth wherever she leads is dangerous because it destroys or weakens belief and faith. Beliefs should be open to change and one would hope that truth should prevail over mere beliefs. Faith, of course, is different from beliefs and should be strengthened by truth. Does it not require faith to seek truth?

"A prerequisite for pursuing truth is the ability to be open and honest with self and the ability to recognize and accept that one doesn't possess all truth. Another is the ability and courage to assume individual responsibility for one's search and for the conclusion one reaches. The alternative to individual interpretation and definition of truth is an institutional definition and interpretation." End Quote

Why does the ground feel shaky when we start to question some teachings in unhealthy churches, whatever they may be? Have you seen ones who have started to question and then pull back because it is too upsetting to them? Is there a false security? What about individual responsibility? Or is it easier to "go with the flow" and remain entrenched in religion?

It's easy to have it all laid out for you. You do this, this and this and then avoid that and the other and you'll be pleasing to God. There's a sense of security that can come by following such a list in an unhealthy church, but it is a false sense of security.

Think of the Pharisees. They had their list to follow and some of it was fully scriptural. But then somewhere down the road, the list became the focus, and the list grew and became more complex and detailed, so you could better keep the things in the list. They felt very secure in this. And yet it wasn't a real security.

Jesus showed their hearts were far from God. Yet they felt they were quite saved and even above others. Children of Abraham. Keepers of the law. There was a false sense of security in their beliefs. Think about it.... ]]> Lois http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/blog.php?b=274 http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/blog.php?b=273 Sun, 15 Jan 2012 12:20:00 GMT *We often speak of the difference between following religion and having a relationship with God. Many of us, while in the UPC or similar churches, ... We often speak of the difference between following religion and having a relationship with God. Many of us, while in the UPC or similar churches, ended up getting caught up in religion.

Below is a quote from an article written in The Reporter News (a local weekly paper near the Houston area) on March 15, 2006. A minister by the name of Casey Jones is the author.

Quote:
"...if I had tried to convince some*one to become a Christian, it would have been a matter of my trying to get them to agree with me, rather than wishing for them to meet and experience God."

The above quote says a lot. Think about it for a bit. How many focus on getting people to their church or at least their organization? How many focus on getting the person into the baptismal tank or to have them speak in tongues?

Compare these things with wanting the person to meet and have a one on one personal relationship with God. See the huge difference? See the different focus and see how the focus may well be an indicator of the person's own relationship with God or perhaps the lack thereof?

I well remember when people from my former UPC church would go out door knocking. In fact, I was in charge of it for a time. It was to get people to come to our church. It was to get a Bible study started that taught our particular teachings and show them that their church was not saving anyone if they were attending another church. If someone had been prompted to attend some other church after our visit, we would have seen that as a failure. It really was about US and what WE had and indoctrinating them into our beliefs that were separate from most of the Christian world.

Some other Christians could go door knocking or send out invitations to their church, but would have been happy if, as a result of their efforts, someone went to another church in the area. While they would have welcomed the person at their church, it wasn't just about filling up their pews or hurrying up to drag them to their water baptism.

Can you see the difference?

This brings another thought to mind, and that is how some are in such a hurry to drag people into the baptismal tank and get them to speak in tongues. They will gather around and stay with the new people until both happen and then move on to focus on the next 'unsaved' believer. It is about getting two acts completed so a person is 'saved' and often there is little focus on helping them develop a one on one relationship with God.

Something to think about.... ]]> Lois http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/blog.php?b=273 http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/blog.php?b=272 Sat, 14 Jan 2012 11:16:00 GMT I have had people share with me over the years that at first they didn't realize that they had experienced what has been termed as spiritual abuse. It wasn't until they came across a site such as spiritualabuse.org that they started to see parts of their experience as actual abuse.

Others are very reluctant, some even very adamant against, to state they had been abused in this manner because of the 'victim' status and they don't want to be portrayed or seen as a victim.

Call it what you want, the wrong does happen and affects many, many people worldwide. How deeply it effects somneone varies from person to person.

Some who have experienced this abuse have spoken out about it in various ways. Some, such as myself, started web sites. Some blog about it. Some write thesis papers on it. Some have online or in person support groups. Some make themselves available for people locally.

Have you spoken out about spiritual abuse/unhealthy churches or ministers in some form & if so, how have you done it? ]]> Lois http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/blog.php?b=272 http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/blog.php?b=271 Fri, 13 Jan 2012 14:14:00 GMT *There may be some out there, who have left a church that teaches women are never to cut their hair, and who are thinking of getting their hair cut... There may be some out there, who have left a church that teaches women are never to cut their hair, and who are thinking of getting their hair cut as they no longer believe the doctrine. You may want to consider donating your cut hair to Locks of Love, an organization that makes hairpieces for children. This link takes you to their hair donation page. You will need to read it for what they can accept.

http://www.locksoflove.org/donate.html ]]> Lois http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/blog.php?b=271 http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/blog.php?b=270 Thu, 12 Jan 2012 13:27:00 GMT *Continuing on the requirements for licensing in the United Pentecostal Church. Below are the specific requirements for each of the three levels: ... Continuing on the requirements for licensing in the United Pentecostal Church. Below are the specific requirements for each of the three levels:

Section 3. Local License.

1. All applicants must be seventeen (17) years of age or over.

2. All applicants must have preached an average of one (1) sermon each week for a period of six (6) months or more before being examined by the District Board in relation to their call to the ministry. Exceptions to this requirement would be left to the discretion of the District Board. (It is understood that teaching a Sunday school class or leading services does not meet this requirement.)

3. All local licensed ministers are to labor in full cooperation with, and under the supervision of, their local United Pentecostal Church pastor until they enter into ministerial responsibilities severing them from their local assembly.

Section 4. General License.

1. All applicants must be nineteen (19) years of age or over.

2. All applicants must be presently engaged in the ministry as pastor, full-time evangelist, assistant pastor, elected or appointed official, full-time Bible school administrator, or instructor, except those qualifying under Paragraph 3.

3. Theological students (majoring in religion) who complete three (3) years of Bible training in any Bible college endorsed by the United Pentecostal Church International, and who otherwise qualify, may be granted either a Local or General License at the discretion of the District Board of the district in which they establish their legal residence. These students shall request their respective colleges to send the Bible College Report form to the District Superintendent. In no event shall the students be granted a license from the district in which the Bible college is located unless they are actively engaged in the ministry in that district prior to and at the time of licensing.

4. All applicants who are not Bible college graduates must have held Local License for at least one (1) year. They must also have proven their ministry for a period of one (1) year or more. During said time, applicants must have preached an average of one (1) sermon each week. (It is understood that teaching a Sunday school class or leading services does not meet this requirement.) Exceptions may be made for applicants who are being accepted from another church organization. (See Section 5, Paragraph 4.)

Section 5. Certificate of Ordination.

1. All applicants must be twenty-one (21) years of age or over and must have held General License for at least two (2) years. Any exception to this would be left to the discretion of the District Board.

2. All applicants must have proven their ministry for two (2) consecutive years and must presently be an active pastor, full-time evangelist, assistant pastor, appointed or elected official, full-time Bible college administrator or instructor.

3. All applicants for Ordination to Military Chaplaincy must fulfill all doctrinal and other qualifications except the specified time of active ministerial service and the need to hold General License prior to applying.

4. All applicants who have previously been ordained by another church organization shall appear before the District Board and be thoroughly examined to determine the merits of their ordination and their qualifications for the ministry. The District Board shall determine whether to accept their former ordination, recommend ordination by the United Pentecostal Church International, or grant Local or General License.

5. All applicants endorsed for ordination shall be notified by the District Secretary as to the next official meeting where they may be ordained.

6. An ordination may be held at any district meeting and must be presided over by a member of the Board of General Presbyters. A district meeting includes regular or special called District Conferences, conventions, or camp meetings to which all of the ministers of the district are invited. It does not include fellowship meetings, youth rallies, or other sectional gatherings.

As you can see, a licensed minister in the organization is not required to have any formal training. In fact, the experience they need in delivering sermons is very little and requires no supervision. ]]> Lois http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/blog.php?b=270 http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/blog.php?b=269 Wed, 11 Jan 2012 12:04:00 GMT *Again, I am sharing from the 2009 UPCI Manual, Article VII, Section 2. It* *is the same as appears in the 2005 Manual, with the exception of #7,... Again, I am sharing from the 2009 UPCI Manual, Article VII, Section 2. It is the same as appears in the 2005 Manual, with the exception of #7, where the part about preterism was later added. This section covers the requirements for ministerial license or ordination and is shared in its entirety. The organization has three levels of licensing: local, general and ordination. Each has their own requirements, but those listed below are for any of the three.

1. Anyone desiring to be affiliated with the United Pentecostal Church International must believe in the Oneness of God as taught in Mark 12:29, John 14:6-11, and I Timothy 3:16; must have the baptism of the Holy Ghost with the initial sign of speaking with other tongues as in Acts 2:4,10:46, and 19:1-6; must have been baptized by immersion in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, as in Acts 2:38; must be living a holy and godly life according to the Scriptures as described in the Articles of Faith of the United Pentecostal Church International; and must believe in, teach, and preach the same.

2. The acceptance, deferral, or rejection of any application shall be the prerogative of the District Board.

3. An application must be properly completed, all questions being carefully answered. The same must be endorsed by a majority of the District Board including the District Superintendent.

(a) All applicants who reside and/or labor in unorganized districts shall be examined by the District Superintendent and District Secretary who in turn shall refer their decision to the Executive Board for final decision.

4. All applicants shall be required to appear before their District Board for examination, having made application at least sixty (60) days prior to meeting the Board and must have met any training or seminar requirements set forth by their District Board. The applicants must have the recommendation of their local pastor, having proven themselves faithful to their home church. In the event that they have no local pastor, the matter shall be left to the discretion of the District Board.

5. All applicants shall be willing to submit to questioning and, if necessary, investigation by the District Board relative to their financial stewardship.

6. No minister shall be permitted to hold license or ordination with any other religious organization or association. Exceptions to this rule shall be made in the case of ministers residing where they cannot receive proper governmental recognition without belonging to an organization in that country. In such a case, special permission shall be obtained from the Executive or General Board, in writing, for said ministers to belong to an organization in that country for this purpose only.

7. License or Certificate of Ordination shall not be issued to anyone who teaches the doctrine of unconditional eternal security, and/or annihilation of the wicked dead, and/or the divine (or heavenly) flesh of Christ, (defined as that the flesh of Jesus Christ had no biological or genetic relationship to other human beings), and/or all forms of preterism. (Please see the pertinent position paper for a more detailed definition.)

8. All applications and all information submitted with the applications, together with the action of the District Board, shall become the property of the organization.

9. All applicants must have completed at least one (1) year in a Bible college endorsed by the United Pentecostal Church International (see paragraph 10) or have completed the required reading schedule established by the General Board. The required reading schedule may be obtained from the District Board or from the office of the General Secretary. All applicants, including Bible college students, must read the Bible through at each level of ministry and must read the Manual of the United Pentecostal Church International.

10. If the applicant has attended a Bible college endorsed by the United Pentecostal Church Intemational, the applicant must request the respective college to send the Bible College Report by certified mail, return receipt requested, from the college to the District Superintendent. This report must be received and reviewed by the District Board before a license can be granted. The Bible college shall comply with this request within sixty (60) days. If no report is received within this time period, it is assumed the applicant is in good standing with the Bible college.

11. Any U.S. or Canadian citizen residing in a foreign field and desiring ministerial license or credentials shall be examined by the Regional Director and the Missionary Superintendent of the particular field in which he or she is residing and laboring. The names of all applicants endorsed by the Regional Director and the Missionary Superintendent shall be forwarded to the Foreign Missionary Board for its decision. Notification shall be given to the District Superintendent where the applicant previously resided.

(a) All applicants in a Foreign Missionary District shall meet the requirements of Article VII, Sections 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6.

(b) All national ministers residing and laboring outside North America shall be examined and granted license or credentials by their respective national church only.

To read the position paper on preterism, adopted in 2005, go here: http://www.spiritualabuse.org/issues/position/preterist.html

To read the position paper on the humanity of Jesus, go here: http://www.spiritualabuse.org/issues/position/divineflesh.html

To be continued... ]]> Lois http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/blog.php?b=269 http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/blog.php?b=276 Tue, 10 Jan 2012 21:48:27 GMT I can't help but wonder how my fairly bright, for the most part- honest, kind, compassionate, hard working - family got so enmeshed in this out of the main stream religious group.

Here's what I came up with:

My paternal grandfather died very young, leaving my grandmother with 13 children to rear during the depression, my father was next to the youngest at 5 years old. My grandmother was a big woman (I am 5'10" and have had aunts also this tall) stern, honest, religious --a very strong woman (she had to be). She was a methodist, back when the methodist also 'shouted their hair down'.

From what I have learned, this oneness group started out with a great deal of emotion, caring, and a desire to get as close to God as possible, but without a lot of the legalism now such a big part of it. I can see how the early pentecostal group would be attractive to a single Mom with almost nothing to call her own and 13 kids to care for.

I remember stories of her praying while bags of groceries magically appeared on her porch and praying for money for shoes for her kids and finding a couple of dollars in the ditch beside the road. I also heard stories of her whipping the kids with a razor strap on their bare behinds --they could not afford pajamas or underwear so slept nude and were a prime target for discipline at nite:l4augh:My dad says he immediately started bawling and did not get whipped as hard as his stoic older brother. 4 of her 5 sons became oneness preachers. One a National foreign missions director, one a state district superintendent for over 20 years, one a lifetime minister who started 3 churches, one (the youngest) a local minister. Admittedly, they were ALJC, not UPC --not sure even Grandma would accept the legalism of today's group. She was killed in a train accident when I was 10 years old so I guess I'll never know how she would have felt about all the changes.

My maternal grandmother also lost her husband early on, my mother was 16 when her dad died of a stroke. Neither grandfather had been in the church. My maternal grandmother was very short (under 5' tall). She was very kind, sweet, loving. She had come into oneness with her own mother when my mom (her youngest) was around 6 and my grandfather was being a bit of a womanizer; supposedly my mom has a sister about her age somewhere:err: He was also a non practicing Catholic and there was almost no contact with his side of the family b/c of the difference in religion. So, I can see this kind, sweet, grandmother being led into this with her mother, seeking peace from a difficult life. As a child, I sensed she didn't buy into some of the 'rules', suggesting I needed a haircut (at least bangs) and buying me pants to wear in the cold weather and shorts or pedal pushers in summer.

So that's where it started for us. My family had a bit of drive and made a place for themselves in the churches; this encouraged their children in turn to remain where there was a sense of belonging and maybe a bit of importance. Later, some were successful in business and/or education and they tended to not stay so close to the group. By the 3rd generation, many were no longer in the group --some had switched to UPC (more power, more people, etc.), some stayed in ALJC (either out of loyalty, or to remain significant) Some opted out all together but tended to not go to church anywhere else and just attend the group church occasionally --it is difficult to accept somewhere else when you have been indoctrinated so intensely. By the 4th generation, the group was losing ground and only the diehards were staying, but this is a big family and a not so big organization, so it is still easy to find someone in the organization that knows someone in the family, particularly in the ALJC.

So, I have answered my question,"how did my family get sucked into this?" I was one who stayed longer b/c I am typically pretty loyal and obedient but also b/c I gave myself and my family a bit of lenience with some of the rules throughout the years.

If we had never been born into this and my grandparents lived today never having heard of this, I would like to think there would not be ANY of us in this today.

Why would anyone want to be a part of this? I guess it is b/c it is promoted as a way to draw closer to God and also a way that one can actually do something important or be someone important --after we are 'King's Kids' :twitcy:

Hopefully, now that I have gotten that out of my system, I can keep moving forward in God's grace without the baggage - maybe:4rolleyes: ]]> Nancy http://www.spiritualabuse.org/supportgroup/blog.php?b=276