The Christian-Koinonia Support Group

This blog will contain some insight for those who have experienced spiritual abuse and will also hopefully help to educate those who would like to learn about it.

Experiences Some feel that everything that happens in a church service must be from God. This is far from the truth as other factors can come into play, such as manipulation, the power of suggestion, and learned behavior.

Experiences Can Be Real, But....

Posted December 12th, 2011 at 08:00 AM by Lois

Here is something to consider. If Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 14 that people would think believers were mad if they heard a bunch of speaking in tongues in a service, what would he say about this laughter and being slain business? Speaking in tongues is biblical. What about these other "manifestations?"

Here is where we must go to the Bible and we do not see these things in the Bible. Neither is taught in the Bible, nor do we see evidence of either in the stories found in the Bible. This should be very telling.

What is accomplished when people laugh out of control, especially during the preaching of the Word? It certainly is not edifying. In addition, Paul taught that the spirit of the prophet is subject to the prophet. This means that as believers, we are in control of what we do and allow.

The passages used to support laughter and being slain are taken out of context and never, ever show anything remotely similar to what goes on in churches that teach and support these things. But because they happen in a church setting, many blindly accept it as being from God. In addition, some in ministry threaten people who would speak against such "moves." (For example, think Hinn and Hanegraaff.)

Experiences can be real, but real experiences don't necessarily translate as being something God ordained.

Lois

Administrator

Posted in Questioning, Experiences

Comments 0 Lois is offline

Signs, Signs, Everywhere A Sign....

Posted December 11th, 2011 at 07:58 AM by Lois

"Signs, signs, everywhere a sign...." Remember this old song? I took the liberty of adding an s. In some churches it is all about signs. Seeking signs. Desiring signs. Disappointed if there are no signs. It's not a good service if there are no signs. What is the next sign going to be?

This mindset is not good. Jesus and the apostles warn us against desiring and following after signs. Yet despite these warnings, what do we see in some churches? People flocking after the next big sign.

You can hear the circus barker, "Step right up, folks! See the spectacular! The unbelievable! Watch jewels suddenly appear before your eyes! Gold dust fills the air! People fall at the wave of a hand! Come on in and marvel at the sight!"

Gold. It came in the form of dust, fillings and entire teeth. Angel feathers. Jewels. Laughter. Falling out. Oil. Spiritual drunkenness. Slain. The list goes on as people line up and get carried away by the wind.

People are drawn to the spectacular. We want to see amazing things. Why would the people in Jesus' days be reprimanded for seeking signs? This is why we have so many problems in the churches which focus on emotionalism. We want gold fillings. Then gold dust. Then we want to see pulpits broken in half or people shaking uncontrollably in and out of services. There's always a search for more and more. Bigger and better.

Who is getting all the attention? Does the focus come on a person or people, the pastor, the church? If God is going to do something miraculous, HE would be getting the glory and the attention, with the result of people turning to Him. In the New Testament, miracles happened to confirm the Gospel being preached and the apostles didn't run after or focus on them.

Oftentimes things like these help fill up someone's wallet, be that the pastor's, evangelist's or the church fund. The love of money causes many to do things which they ought not do.

What happens at the places where these things occur? Is all the talk and emphasis now on the "move"? Do they lose a focus of preaching the Gospel? How is their teaching being distorted by these signs? Does the emphasis become that of experiences trumping Scripture? (It has to be true or of God because it happened in church and look how many are at the church! Because it makes me excited and I feel good! I know that isn't in the Bible, but God can do anything, can't He?) The dismissal of Scripture is a serious thing in these "moves." Experience is placed above Scripture and the Bible gets interpreted through the experiences and not the other way around.

What's the fruit of it all? Why would God perform such acts? What does gold teeth or gold dust mean to Him? Does He really focus on these material things? Would he really leave jewels laying around at a church? Really? Where do we...

Lois

Administrator

Posted in Questioning, Experiences

Comments 1 Lois is offline

Drunk In Church?!

Posted December 9th, 2011 at 05:52 AM by Lois

You may have seen people in church, acting like they were drunk. Perhaps even the minister said something like, "We all need to get drunk in the Spirit!" Is this thought biblical? What passage is used to justify such behavior?

This is a good area for us to examine because there is a teaching out there that because some onlookers referred to those on the day of Pentecost as being drunk in Acts 2, that it must mean they were exhibiting drunken behavior such as we see allowed in some churches today. I believe this is far, far from the truth.

Since the Bible warns us against drunkenness, why would God cause in us a behavior which would make us appear to be exactly what he tells us we should not be? Stop and think about it. It makes no sense. The Bible warns us to abstain from the appearance of evil in 1 Thessalonians 5:22. In Galatians 5, we see a list of some of the acts of a sinful nature and drunkenness is listed. Furthermore, we see no biblical instances which show the type of behavior which is today termed being drunk in the Spirit.

Let's look at Acts 2. Verse two shows us that they were sitting when the Holy Spirit came upon them. So what attracted others to go and see what was happening? Verse five says it was because the crowd heard the believers speaking in their own languages. If you were in a different country and heard someone speaking your language instead of that of the country you were visiting, it would likewise get your attention. It doesn't mention anyone was slurring their speech or stumbling around or acting incoherant, laughing like people often do when they are drunk or passed out on the floor. What attracted them was the sound they heard as they were hearing their native languages being spoken. This is made very clear in the passage.

This stirred conversation. They knew the believers shouldn't be speaking in their languages. They questioned why and what it meant. This is when some mocked and proclaimed they had too much to drink. That remark was in reference to the speaking in tongues that they heard and not any drunken type behavior. Nowhere in Acts does it show believers as exhibiting any evidence of possible drunkenness.

Haven't we ever heard someone give a lame reason for something which they observed but couldn't understand? How would being drunk cause someone to be able to speak a foreign language they did not know? In no way does this passage give any indication that the believers were acting in a drunken manner as some teach today. This is when Peter and the other apostles stood up while Peter proclaimed Jesus to them and let them know that drunkenness had nothing to do with what was happening.

This teaching is one which really bothers me. The Bible is very clear about the issue of drunkenness and being careful when drinking and that those who follow Christ should not drink excessively...

Lois

Administrator

Posted in Questioning, Experiences

Comments 0 Lois is offline

Substituting Church For Jesus: Where Is Your Identity Found?

Posted December 6th, 2011 at 10:13 AM by Lois

Have you substituted church for Jesus? Are you so caught up in church activities that you have forgotten what being a Christian is about?

Many times these things happen to those who have become involved in unhealthy churches. They may start off well, but slowly lose their focus. Where are you today? Has your life become all about church and programs and pleasing the pastor/leadership?

I remember how it was different for me in the beginning of my time in the UPC. I remember feeling good and soaking things in and having a joy. I had started my walk with God before I ever set foot in their church. I had started to read the Bible at home and repented....saw my need to be water baptized, and that is how I started my time in that organization.

But after awhile things changed. My main focus, which should have been on Jesus, changed. It became about church, the multiple activities there, the fellowship there, in doing things and being involved in the church and so forth. It didn't happen overnight and I wasn't catching that a shift was taking place. There were all the regular services (3 a week), prayer meetings, the Ladies Auxiliary meetings, other committee meetings, making crafts or baking goods to sell for fund raisers, time spent on other fund raisers, door knocking, eating out after services, cleaning the church, doing things to help the pastor....the list is long.

I don't believe there are too many who go this route knowing what is happening and charge ahead anyway. It is a slow process and often while we are yet involved, we don't realize what happened to our focus.

I know I came to see doing things for the church as doing things for the Lord. But that wasn't always how it actually was. Life now revolved around church, not Church (note the capital c- there is a difference). Not necessarily God, but the building and all that went on inside and with special services elsewhere. You get so busy doing and going, that it is what your life revolved around.

This thought made me think about all the writings (as well as sermons) I have seen and heard through the years, where people speak of Pentecost. It is Pentecost this and Pentecost that. Pentecost birthed them. And I know this happens in other denominations. It becomes about the group one is joined to. Jesus is still mentioned, but the focus turns to other things, like your Apostolic Identity, for instance. Our identity is to lie in Jesus Christ, and in Him alone- not in Pentecostalism, Methodism, Lutheranism or anything else.

Lois

Administrator

Posted in Experiences

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Let Me Off The Roller Coaster!

Posted December 4th, 2011 at 09:02 AM by Lois

Roller coasters- a lot of people love taking rides on all kinds of roller coasters. There's the smaller and more mild ones for the younger ones or those starting out. Then there are the huge ones with all types of twists and going upside down, that test how well you can hold down your food, lol.

But there is another roller coaster ride that isn't fun but is frustrating and never ending: It is the performance trap roller coaster found in unhealthy churches. When you board this ride, they don't let you off and it takes away your joy.

When people attempt to earn their righteousness or somehow earn favor or acceptance with God through their actions, they will always struggle. That is because it simply cannot be done. We either accept by faith the righteousness God gives us or we attempt to earn it ourselves. And since we are imperfect people and we often mess up and fall short, we will never feel complete and lasting peace attempting to follow God in this manner. Worse yet, all our efforts are in vain as we cannot make ourselves righteous.

When you fail, you feel badly and feel maybe God will reject you or think less of you. Then maybe you have a good day or service and feel better. But all too soon the down side comes again as you don't live up to the performance expected. It's a roller coaster ride of ups and downs. And many often wonder if they will even make it to heaven.

This is not what a Christian life is supposed to be like. Our salvation is not based upon our performance, but upon the completed work of Jesus on Calvary. He paid the full price for all our sins and mess ups. There is nothing we can do to achieve what He already accomplished. And there is nothing you can do to cause God to love you or love you more. He already loves you. He expressed that love when Jesus paid the price you owed for your sins. Yes, even before you were born, He saw ahead and loved you.

There is hope outside of the performance trap roller coaster ride. There is life- more abundant life in Christ!

Lois

Administrator

Posted in Experiences

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