Since I am going through a divorce, I have noticed TONS of parallels with leaving the church. At first, I didn't even know that I was in an abusive marriage. That has been such a shock. It's still hard for me to say it out loud.

There's a lot to process, and I hope you all will allow me to use my blog as a journal of sorts. Maybe it will help someone here be able to process their own exit from church. I'm finding that many marriages do fall apart after one or both spouses exit the church. In my case, the marriage was bad all along, I was just unable to confront the core issues b/c of the hold the church had on me.

My counselor told me this morning that I have good judgment and am a rational person. She said the problem is that I don't trust my own self and my own decisions. I realized when she said it that I've NEVER been taught that it was okay to trust my judgment. I was SUPPOSE to defer my will and reason to the church. It was never okay to express my own personality or likes/dislikes.

I really hope that my soon-to-be ex finds the help he needs. I pray daily for his salvation. However, when I think about his latest "conversion" and the subsequent reaction I am suppose to have of being overjoyed and ready to work it out, all I feel is dread and fear.

soughtoutgrl

1 Cor 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

I've had this verse used against me quite a bit now. No, I haven't fornicated or committed any other sin that shocked even people who are not in the church, like this passage discusses. I am not one, as verses 10-11 indicate, who is "...covetous, or extortioners, or ...idolaters..." or "a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner."

Above that, this verse is not discussing walking past the person as though they don't exist, giving them a whithering look as you pass them in public, refusing to accept change from them at the store or buying anything of theirs at a yard sale or even applying with their company... it isn't talking about being RUDE in other words. The verse tells the church to deliver the person who does the things listed above (idolatry, fornication, drunkenness, extortion, covetousness, or railing (abuse)) to Satan (in other words to put them outside the safety and support of the church)... not to act like the devil themselves!!!

God never approves of rudeness and outright cruelty, selfrighteousness or pride. Read what Paul wrote in NLT: "Then you must cast this man out of the church and into Satan's hands, so that his sinful nature will be destroyed and he himself will be saved when the Lord returns. How terrible that you should boast about your spirituality, and yet you let this sort of thing go on. Don't you realize that if even one person is allowed to go on sinning, soon all will be affected? Remove this wicked person from among you so that you can stay pure."

God in no way condones the rudeness that many people have allowed through these verses. Paul is simply telling the church to stop bragging how righteous they are, when they "associate with anyone who claims to be a Christian yet indulges in sexual sin, or is greedy, or worships idols, or is abusive, or a drunkard, or a swindler." (v 11, NLT) He goes on to tell them that while a person is unrepentant they shouldn't be considered a brother or sister. He doesn't say the person should be counted as less than a heathen, or should never be able to come to church again, just that they should stop counting that man as a Christian as long as he is unrepentant.

Think about the bolded and the list in v 11 for a minute. If we are not to fellowship people who claim to be Christians and do the things listed above, and if we could be affected by those things if we allow them to continue in our midst, is it wrong to leave a church where these things are allowed to continue, and even encouraged?

I don't advocate throwing people out of churches if they have these problems. But after having had this verse used on me more than once, I have to believe that if it is ever used, it should only...

mary

This is another 'random memory' that something made me think about today.

It's often preached in UPC churches that when it comes to "shouting" or "dancing in the spirit", no one will ever EVER get hurt unless the person doing the shouting is faking. From what I've seen, this is just not the case. The main incident happened when I was around 10 or 11. My great Aunt was the one doing the 'shouting'. She was being prayed for up front, speaking in tongues, and started shouting. She bumped into the altar and it turned over and landed on the foot of an elderly lady who was standing up front praying and broke her foot.

The reaction of the entire church was pretty ugly. They told my Aunt that she was faking, and she was shunned and verbally abused for several months after that. My reaction was "WHAT JUST HAPPENED????" I was soooo confused. The thing is, I KNOW my Aunt, and I KNOW that she would never fake anything. I don't really know what my beliefs are on shouting and dancing, I don't know if its of God, or if its a product of emotional frenzy, but either way, I know that my Aunt was not doing something fake just to appear 'spiritual'. Whether what she was doing was of God or a product of something else, she truly believed it was of God and felt 'something' or she wouldn't have been doing it.

Almost 20 years later, I still have no idea what to think about this particular instance. The lady with the broken foot never blamed my Aunt, said that she believed my Aunt was "in the spirit" and that its possible for something like this to happen due to 'human imperfections'. I don't know...

My other two memories involve (surprise surprise) my Mom. One thing that happened was in the same church. My Mom was "running the aisles" and she started grabbing people's hands and pulling them out to run the aisles with her. One lady whose hand she grabbed got halfway around the church and then fell in the floor. People ignored her for quite awhile thinking she was "slain in the spirit", and then someone noticed she was calling for help. I can't remember exactly which bone it was, but a bone in her lower body had broke and she couldn't stand up. Paramedics were called and she was taken to the hospital. The church was VERY angry with my Mom for pulling her out to run the aisles with her, even though this was a common practice.

It turned out that this lady had bone cancer, and she didn't know it yet. After they patched this bone up, other bones kept breaking every time she walked and she died around a year later.

Another thing was several years later, at a different church, my Mom was again running the aisles and "dancing in the spirit". She grabbed me by the hand and pulled me out to run and dance with her. I had no interest in this, but she had hold of my hand so tight I couldn't easily let go. ...

hillbillygirl

I've heard it preached repeatedly that we can't give God anything but our best. Deut 17:1 is used as a reason for this. But that passage isn't talking about giving less than the best for sacrifices. It says nothing about seeking out the very fattest and best lamb, it just says not to give one that is blemished or obviously disfigured. It appears to be talking more about deliberately giving an unworthy sacrifice. Going to the heard and finding an animal not worth keeping and killing it. At any rate, it isn't talking about beating ourselves over the head, losing sleep over whether we could have done anything better that day or not.

Of all of these, all but Deut 22:5 obviously discuss things spoken against in the 10 Commandments and again in the New Testament by Jesus and by the writers of the Epistles.

Food laws were reversed in Peter's vision "what I have made clean call thou not common". Gentiles were also made clean in this vision and the activities in Acts 10 that followed. What else was considered 'clean' at that point? What does Deut 22:5 really mean? Does it stand alone as saying women shouldn't wear pants? Hardly. It is part of the blended gender issue that is defined as sexual immorality. There is nothing sexually immoral, nothing about blending genders determined by ladies wearing pants.

What things were abominable in the Bible?
In the Old Testament, certain foods (Lev 11), homosexual acts (Lev 18:22), idols (Deut 7:25, 12:31, 13:14), dishonorable sacrifices (Deut 17:1), mixing genders (Deut 22:5), cheating in business practices (or possibly favoring some people and cheating others) (Deut 25:16, Prov 11:1, Prov 20:10), frowardness (Prov 3:32), Prov 6:16 and 12:22 and 16:5, Justifying the wicked and condemning the just (Prov 17:15), Jer 6 and 8, Ez 18:12, sexual immorality Jer 22:11, were an abomination. Why pull out only Deut 22:5? Why are the others not preached often as abomination?

mary

I'm going to take a break from cataloguing memories in a specific timeline. Concentrating so hard on such unpleasant events and trying to remember accurate details is getting me down. Last night I had nightmares about the exorcism.

Yes, I'm a grown woman, wife, mother, professional, and I still have nightmares about things that happened in my UPC upbringing. If my husband is not with me, I sleep with the light on. Even after years of therapy and feeling more peaceful with the world in general than I ever have, I still have a lot of residual fear that is not yet completely gone.

I cannot read the book of Revelations without seeing that horrible "End Times" video that was shown to me by Apostolics in my mind. I will not speak of it now, maybe sometime I'll write about it. Sometimes I can almost put this stuff behind me and have peace, but *something* always happens and I find myself shaking inside again, while keeping my demeanor frozen in 'normalcy'. Can't let the masses see the fear, they'd think I was crazy. (Maybe I am.. after all, a Pentecostal preacher said I was a reprobate... )

So, while I'm taking this break, I will continue posting some random (less disturbing) memories about growing up UPC/Apostolic.

One such memory is this: I remember an unsaved couple coming to our church once, and of course, the lady was not dressed in compliance with the standards. She wore a dress, but had cut hair, makeup, earrings, etc. A boy of about 12 went up to her after service and said "Don't come back as long as you're wearing earrings, we don't believe in that here.". She wasn't sure how to take it, because looking around, none of the women were wearing earrings. But, this was just a child, so she wasn't sure whether to believe him or not. Fortunately, somone heard him and went and told the Pastor. The Pastor immediately came to her and apologized and said that he was just a confused child, we very much wanted her to come back, in fact to come back forever would be our greatest wish. She said "But is it true? Do you consider earrings a sin?" Since the lady had obviously just had her feelings hurt, the Pastor tried to stumble around the standards without saying outright, yes we consider them a sin. By this point he was pretty flustered and although I can't remember his exact explanation, I know it wasn't great (how could it be?) and they never came back. The boy was given a talking-to from the Pastor, and then was punished at home by his parents.

However, I don't know that he really deserved punishment. He was repeating what he'd been taught. He thought he was standing up for his beliefs. The church didn't do much teaching on grace, personal convictions, or 'working out your own salvation', but they did a WHOLE LOT of preaching on standards, not being ashamed of your beliefs, not letting the church get contaminated with...

hillbillygirl