On my way to Missouri last weekend, I heard Hank Hanegraff on the radio responding to a question about suicide:
"First of all, you can’t say that suicide is the unforgivable sin, because no single act is an unforgivable sin. The unforgivable sin is a continual ongoing rejection of forgiveness. And those who refuse forgiveness through Christ will spend eternity separated from his love and grace. Those who sincerely desire forgiveness can be absolutely certain that God will never spurn them..."

I've heard that anyone who killed themselves would die with unrepented sin in their lives and go straight to hell. I was taught that blasphemy was the unforgivable sin and was taught that even joking about tongues (kidding around and imitating someone, for instance) might be blasphemy and shouldn't be risked, because no one knows where God might draw the line and strike down.

Both these concepts show a judgmental, angry God, not an Abba Father. So Hank's statement really stood out to me, like this:
"First of all, you can’t say that suicide is the unforgivable sin, because no single act is an unforgivable sin. The unforgivable sin is a continual ongoing rejection of forgiveness. And those who refuse forgiveness through Christ will spend eternity separated from his love and grace. Those who sincerely desire forgiveness can be absolutely certain that God will never spurn them..."

This helped me a lot. I don't have to be afraid that I might make a mistake and then die in a car wreck before I could ask forgiveness of whatever it was and go to hell. I don't have to be scared that I might accidentally blaspheme the Holy Ghost by shouting "in the flesh" or uttering some syllables in imitation of tongues when it was really just me. I don't have to run around all day muttering "forgive me, oh, God, I'm sorry. Forgive me!" in order to insure salvation. Wow, what a relief.

Then I got home, and someone gave me some books. One of the books was The Shack. I've been avoiding that one. It was preached against at my former church. Really, really bad book, right up there with Christianity without the Cross. Duh. I should have known by that alone that I should definitely read it! There are some good points in it... including a discussion about how God is often viewed as judgmental and wrathful, but Jesus is looked at as Savior. That people pray to God when they want revenge or expect anger and judgment, and pray to Jesus when they want forgiveness. And as I read that I realized how few times I heard Jesus preached at my former church, unless it was as an image of the ultimate sacrifice and the wrath and judgment of God!! Jesus is God in flesh, and Pentecostals are supposed to be oneness, but the ones I knew still focused on an all-powerful God ready to squash us at any moment, rather than on the Savior who had made a way for us, and done what we couldn't...

mary

I woke up this morning after a vivid dream that I'd gone back to my former church. Apparently in the dream I was working a different job and two different people from other churches had come into my workplace and asked directions to the church. I gave them to them, amused that they didn't realize I used to attend, even though I was dressed just like them.

For whatever reason, I knew they'd be serving a meal that night before church so I decided to sneak in just to eat. Most everyone had eaten by the time I arrived. They asked me to help serve dessert, not recognizing me. So I did. The entire building was different in the dream, but several things were the same. As people started to realize who I was, I could sense their fear. The unasked question was, "Did you ask the pastor if you could come?" They'd shy away from me, afraid to acknowledge me or meet my eyes once they recognized me. And yet there was a little hesitant hope in their eyes that I'd "pray through". Then the pastor came in. Things were tense-would he recognize me? If so, he'd be furious that I'd come. I left at that point, satisfied I'd gotten my answer, and that nothing had changed. I walked the long way back to the car, watching the parking lot fill and people rush in, hurried and focused on that building. I walked, enjoying a starless night, at peace.

I haven't been looking for any answers. I know what would happen if I tried to go back or attend anything they led. But it was odd. The fear and tension were thick. I wasn't afraid, but they were. And they weren't afraid of God or afraid for me, they were afraid the pastor would find out. They were afraid of his anger and his temper on themselves for not saying anything if they knew I was there without permission. Afraid he'd think they had something to do with me being there. And in the dream I knew the reason I wouldn't go back even to visit-a totally unbiblical attitude toward the pastor and the pastor's expectation that someone who'd left had to call and ask permission to return. (There is a rule at church that if you leave, you must ask special permission to even come to a wedding or funeral.) It had to do with his temper and the anger that he expressed so often, that tension in the air, the fear that he'd blame someone for wrongdoing when they'd simply been kind, gentle or compassionate.

It was strange. The dream didn't make me sad or angry, it was just there. But it was strange because the fear, the tense caution, and the rules on returning were so clear and solid in an otherwise whispy dream. It's the first time that I've dreamed about church in years that I felt a calm reassurance when I woke up.

mary

I don't have experience with these two church types outside of Pentecostalism, so I don't know how it is in other denominations, but I've noticed that in the UPC and in Apostolic churches there seems to be several that have a definite bias towards either 'prosperity salvation' or 'poverty salvation'. I don't know if I'm using those terms correctly, that's just what I called it in my head when I first started noticing it. I'm sure I heard it somewhere.

So from my experience, Prosperity churches tend to insert implications (or come right out and say) that if you were in the will of God, doing what you were supposed to, (which means following all their rules) etc., that God would bless you financially. It was said or implied that if you were having difficulties financially, you were doing something wrong. Sin, lack of faith, lack of works, SOMETHING was wrong with your Christian performance and walk with God or else your needs would be met.

The Poverty churches liked focusing on Jesus' statement that it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. This passage was elevated the same way Acts 2:38 was. Any possession that wasn't the bare minimum requirement for living was considered an "idol" and the person who owned it would be 'preached at' regularly and it would be implied over the pulpit that unless the item was sold, the bare necessity purchased, and the rest given to the poor (which usually translated to 'donated to the church') that the owner was lost and hellbound. They were the camel trying to fit through the eye of a needle.

In the Poverty Churches, people developed serious dysfunctions in regards to owning things. Something like a nice car bought for a good price could be labeled as an idol and the person who owned it would be made to feel like a heathen in the midst of saints. A nice dress (even if it was a hand me down) usually was viewed as evidence of a Jezebel spirit, because clothing that was nicer than necessary for decency and comfort couldn't have any other purpose than self-glorification. Members of a Poverty Church would be told constantly that if they put ANYTHING before their relationship with God, that either God would take it away by any means necessary, or they would be lost if they should happen to die before repenting and getting rid of whatever unnecessary person, place, or thing they were allowing to come between them and God.

I've seen pastors of Poverty Churches that used this slant on the doctrine in order to squeeze every last penny out of their congregation so that they could live like kings - in complete contradiction to the things they taught. I've also seen pastors of Poverty Churches that really believed their slant on the doctrine, and lived it. These that truly believed it were (in my experience) usually the one's most likey to call people out by name from the pulpit or give so many...

hillbillygirl

hee hee but it felt so good!

People from my former church were out in droves today, and even late last night, at the "carnal-val" (as my former pastor would call it) downtown. It has really irked me that he repeatedly had people stand if they went even for an hour and rebuked them for going-even the ones that just went to get some good BBQ! For a couple of years I've either snuck over there when I didn't think I'd see anyone or I'd stay away, even though I enjoy it. Well, this year I could go to the whole thing. And saw droves of Pentecostals-even young teens walking around by themselves after 11:00 at night... which I wouldn't recommend in or out of church.

I had reached maximum frustration levels when a bunch of them came to a Christian show and some walked out-from the front row-as the man was giving his testimony. But when one of the women from that church came up to me (she's actually pretty nice and didn't mean any harm) and started telling me that the church was involved in the Fourth celebration, having two yard sales at people's houses, and a bake sale at Walmart, and something else too, I think. (I wasn't paying much attention, but a yard sale or bake sale didn't make them a part of anything.) I said, "oh, wow, they're everywhere." She looked at me and said, "Where do you go to church now?"

Now granted, she probably was sincerely curious. She probably didn't intend to get any other answer than the name of some church. But I kind of grinned and told her, "I do go. But I won't say where. You know how it is. 'Garbage goes to the garbage can.' And no matter what people may say about me, I will NOT let someone call a good church a trash can, just because I go there." She started to say it wouldn't happen, then changed her mind and changed the subject. She was still friendly, but did change the subject to the weather.

(My former pastor gets up and announces, when someone leaves and goes to another church, that he's found another "trash can" for the "garbage" to go to.)

I hope she'll think about it. Because really, when they talk bad about others just because the "others" love, welcome and accept people and they don't, they are telling on themselves.

mary

I just had an interesting thought. In my first Pentecostal chuch, there was a whole lot of singing about sacrifice.

I will Give You All
"God spoke to Abraham and said, give your only son, to offer as a sacrifice to the one you love. Lord if you ask of me to give, the very thing that I love the best, give me the courage and the strength to be willing to say yes"

I want to Live the Way You Want Me to Live
"I want to live, the way, you want me to live. I want to give, until there's just no more to give. I want to love, love til there's just no more love. I could never, ever outlove the Lord"

Songs like that. And in most churches I was familiar with there was a lot of talk about "sacrificial offerings", "sacrificial giving", "giving everything to Jesus", "giving Jesus your very best", "dying daily", "crucifying the flesh", "putting the flesh under subjection", and so forth. They asked often enough in my former church if we were willing to die for Jesus that I even had a nightmare that incorporated that question.

There was a lot of talk about sacrifice, giving, and such, but little talk of love and Jesus' sacrifice for us (unless it was to say we needed to do the same for Him). Can you imagine thinking of your spouse only in terms of what you should give, how obligated you are to him/her, how much you will have to give up for him/her, and how bad it will be for you if you don't?!?! That's not love at all. Dedication, maybe. Obligation, absolutely. Fear, probably. But it isn't love.

I got ahold of a CD about a year and a half or so before I left. There was a song on it that said
"Just to draw close to thee, that's where I long to be, let me hide myself in your heart to find my destiny. Every step I take, is one less step I need, to be in your presence, and close to thee."
Another said
"There is none like You. No one else can touch my heart like you do. I can search through all eternity, Lord, and find there is none like you.
Your mercies flow like a river wide, and healing comes from your hand. Suffering children are safe in your arms. There is none like you..."

When things got bad at church, I'd close my eyes and start singing one of those to myself. I'd sing my own song to God and remember that what I was seeing and hearing didn't reflect Who the Bible said God was.

Those are still some of my favorite songs today. God gave me strength and peace through them when I needed it most.

mary